Run With Horses

Raising Up Shepherds from Within - Part 4

rwh01nov2025 Ep.388 – Run With Horses Podcast – Raising Up Shepherds from Within - Part 4Podcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube: https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
PART 4Preparing Lay Members for Pastoral Ministry

Raising Up Shepherds from Within Part 3

rwh25oct Ep.387 – Run With Horses Podcast – Raising Up Shepherds from Within Part 3Podcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube: https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
As a local body of followers of Jesus, we must embrace the call to be disciple makers on His mission. That includes equipping members for the leadership roles that we need locally as well as to proclaim the name of Jesus in the next town. We need to raise up shepherds in the church.

Raising Up Shepherds from Within Part 2

rwh11oct Ep.385 – Run With Horses Podcast – Raising Up Shepherds from WithinPodcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube: https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
 
We are in a crisis in many of our churches. There is no pastor and no pastor on the way. What does that mean for the church? Is there a path forward toward health and growth? I believe so, and I believe that at least part of the answer is already in our church. Today we are continuing to look at raising up shepherds from within the church.

Raising Up Shepherds from Within

rwh11oct Ep.385 – Run With Horses Podcast – Raising up shepherds from withinPodcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube: https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith

Addressing The Pastor Shortage

rwh04oct Ep.384 – Run With Horses Podcast – Equipping or Educating?Podcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube: https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane
The Probelm• Median age of U.S. Christians has risen (median Christian age ~54), which corresponds with an older pastoral workforce. • Surveys show large shares of pastors have seriously considered quitting in recent years (Barna reported ~33–40% had considered quitting in the early 2020s). Covid had a huge impact and pointed out some problems.• Research finds only a small percent (about ~1% per year) actually permanently leave pastoral ministry for reasons other than retirement, but the pipeline into pastoral roles is thin and many serve bivocationally. (Lifeway and other research summarize low annual exit rates but continued recruitment shortfalls.) • Many groups lose members (reported membership declines in recent annual reports), which affects church budgets and pastoral hiring. 
 

Are we Equipping or only Teaching?

rwh27sept Ep.383 – Run With Horses Podcast – Equipping or Educating?Podcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube: https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
(24:00)Our churches are great at teaching Biblical truth. But sometimes I wonder if we do as well at equipping people for the work of teh ministry. That’s topic of today’s show!
Welcome to Run With Horses! My name is Norman and my goal is to help you thrive as a follower of Jesus. The spiritual life is simple in many ways, but potentially the most difficult part of your life. God invites you to grow, to live intentionally and to join in His mission. It’s very cool that we can do that together!Thank you for joining me today! “If you’re new here, you can check out past episodes at runwithhorses.net. As always, I appreciate your feedback, questions, and reviews!”
*(23:00 – 0:00) * PART 1Run With Horses is on the radio! If you are enjoying Run With Horses, would you let someone know? Contact the radio station or leave a review on your favorite app. We want to hear from you!
Teaching and Equipping
I. Introduction• Many churches excel at teaching but struggle with equipping. The result is knowledge without action, or action without foundation.• How do teaching and equipping differ, and how should they work together in the life of the church?
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II. Defining the Terms
A. Teaching• Imparting knowledge, doctrine, and biblical truth.• Scripture:
B. Equipping• Preparing believers with tools, skills, and confidence to serve and live out their faith.
VI. The Role of Leaders and Members
A. Leaders’ Responsibility• To both teach and equip.• 1 Timothy 4:11–12 – “These things command and teach. Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.”
B. Members’ Responsibility• To move from being hearers to active participants in ministry.• Hebrews 10:24–25 – “And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.”
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VII. Practical Challenges• Overemphasis on knowledge can create spiritual spectators.• Overemphasis on activity without grounding leads to burnout or error.• Baptist churches must intentionally integrate both for effective discipleship.
⸻Teaching informs; equipping transforms. Teaching fills the mind; equipping activates the hands and heart. Both are necessary for a healthy, missional church.
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Teaching Transfers Information; Equipping Shapes People• Teaching is about what you know. Equipping is about who you become and what you do.• Example: The Pharisees were excellent teachers of the Law, but they failed to equip people to live it (Matthew 23:3).
👉 Knowledge is relatively easy to pass on in a classroom; transformation requires walking with people in real life.
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Equipping Requires Application and Practice• Teaching can stop at hearing; equipping demands doing.• James 1:22 – “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.”• Equipping means giving people opportunities to serve, make mistakes, and grow — which is harder than just lecturing.
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Equipping Requires Relational Investment• Teaching can happen from a pulpit; equipping usually happens through discipleship, mentoring, and modeling.• 2 Timothy 2:2 – Paul didn’t just teach Timothy; he entrusted him with responsibility to teach others.• This relational work is time-consuming and often messy.
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Equipping Challenges Comfort Zones• Many believers are comfortable learning but hesitant to step into ministry.• Ephesians 4:12 – equipping means pushing saints into the work of ministry.• That’s more difficult than teaching because it involves confronting fear, apathy, or resistance.
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Equipping Takes Patience and Perseverance• Teaching can produce quick results (“I learned a new fact”).• Equipping is long-term, like training an athlete or raising a child.• Hebrews 5:14 – “But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”• Growth through use (practice) is much slower and harder.
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Equipping Requires Empowering, Not Controlling• Teaching can be one-directional: “Here’s what the Bible says.”• Equipping releases people to serve, which means leaders must trust God’s Spirit in them.• John 14:12 – Jesus prepared His disciples to do “greater works” than He did, even though that meant letting go of control.• Many leaders find that harder than teaching.
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Teaching is easier because it focuses on knowledge transfer. Equipping is harder because it demands life-on-life investment, patience, empowerment, and guiding people into action — but it is also what produces real growth, maturity, and multiplication in the church.
(1:00)Are focused more on teaching or equipping? How can you free up some time so you have margin in your life? Disciple making takes time. Equipping takes time. But helping to prepare others for service is always worth the effort!
– “Thank you for listening today!-If you enjoyed the show you can listen to all the past shows wherever you listen to podcasts. A good place to start is at runwithhorses.net. You can also write me at norman@runwithhorses.net or leave a comment on the Run With Horses Podcast facebook page.Don’t be discouraged by the challenges you face. Keep your eyes on Jesus and embrace the opportunity to grow through the trial. Until next time, keep your eyes on Jesus and never stop running."(00:00)
 
 
 

Asking Better Questions - Moving Towards Disciple Making Multiplicationi

rwh20sept Ep.382 – Run With Horses Podcast –  Podcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube:  https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook:  https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter:  https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
**(24:00)**The questions you ask often determine the kinds of answers you get. How do our questions impact our ability to make disciples, develop leaders and plant new churches? That’s the topic of today’s show!
Welcome to Run With Horses! My name is Norman and my goal is to help you thrive as a follower of Jesus. The spiritual life is simple in many ways, but potentially the most difficult part of your life. God invites you to grow, to live intentionally and to join in His mission. It’s very cool that we can do that together!Thank you for joining me today! “If you’re new here, you can check out past episodes at runwithhorses.net. As always, I appreciate your feedback, questions, and reviews!”
**(23:00 – 0:00)* *  PART 1Run With Horses is on the radio! If you are enjoying Run With Horses, would you let someone know? Contact the radio station or leave a review on your favorite app. We want to hear from you!
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Multiplication Thinking
Part 1: The Power of the Questions We Ask (Vision & Theology)
Theme: Questions reveal what we believe about God’s mission, our role, and the future.** 1. Why Questions Matter ** Questions expose vision (or the lack of it) Show how “addition” questions limit scope vs. “multiplication” questions which expand possibilities. Example: “How many people can I gather?” (Level 2 thinking) vs. “How many disciple-makers can I release?” (Level 4-5 thinking)..The Five Levels of Church Mutiplication1.subtraction 2. Plateau 3.addition 4. Reproducing 5. Multiplication.*** 2. The Five Levels of Leadership (from Hero Maker) *** • Level 1: I count (thinking addition, personal results). • Level 2: I count what I do (improving programs). • Level 3: I count what we do together (team success). • Level 4: I count leaders I raise up (reproduction). • Level 5: I count leaders who multiply leaders (movement/multiplication). • Use examples of how each level asks progressively bigger questions.
*** 3. Biblical and Theological Foundation ***. • Jesus modeled multiplication: He invested in 12 → sent 72 → great commission to all. • Paul’s instruction to Timothy: “Entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others” (2 Tim. 2:2). • The kingdom grows like a seed — designed for multiplication, not maintenance (parable of the mustard seed, yeast in the dough).
*** 4. Why Maintenance Mindset is Dangerous *** • It keeps leaders in survival mode (protecting what is). • It makes ministries inward-focused rather than kingdom-focused. • Ultimately, it limits generational impact.
***  5. Challenge: *** • What questions are you currently asking in your ministry? • Are they addition questions or multiplication questions? • (Good interactive moment: invite participants to write down their top 2 questions they ask about ministry and assess what “level” they reflect.)
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**(00:00) END PART 1****(27:00 – 5:00) BEGIN PART 2*
Part 2: Asking Multiplication Questions
 Leaders at every level can shift from addition to multiplication by the questions they ask.*** 1. Shifting the Question at Every Level of Leadership***. • Sunday school teacher: Instead of “How many kids will show up?” ask “How many kids can I equip to share their faith?” • Deacon/volunteer leader: Instead of “How do I fill this need?” ask “Who can I invite and empower to step into leadership?” • Pastor: Instead of “How do we grow this church?” ask “How do we plant churches and send leaders?” • Church planter: Instead of “How do I build this church strong?” ask “How do I build this to multiply from the start?”
*** 2. Practical Multiplication Questions to Introduce*** • Who am I discipling right now? • Who could they disciple next? • What leaders am I raising up? • Who in my ministry could replace me if I left tomorrow? • What’s stopping me from giving more away?
*** 3. Tools & Practices to Reinforce Multiplication Thinking*** • Permission-giving: Start saying “You can do this” more often. • Scorecards: Redefine success — not just how many are attending, but how many are multiplying. • Apprenticing model: Always have someone learning beside you.
*** 4. Case Studies / Stories*** • Share short stories of multiplication in action (a teacher who trained kids to lead, a church that planted another church, a small group that reproduced). • Highlight that multiplication is possible at every level, not just at the top.
*** 5. Closing Challenge & Vision Casting*** • Ask participants: “If every leader here multiplied themselves once in the next 2 years, what would happen in our church and community?” • Cast vision for generational leadership: thinking in terms of “spiritual grandchildren.” • Call them to choose one multiplication question they’ll start asking this week.
*** 6. Sample Multiplication vs. Maintenance Questions***
Sunday School Teachers • Maintenance: How many kids will show up this week? • Multiplication: Which kids can I disciple so they can share their faith with others? • Multiplication: Who could I apprentice as a future teacher?
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Deacons • Maintenance: How do we meet the needs of our members better? • Multiplication: Who else can we raise up to serve so more people are empowered? • Multiplication: How do we multiply servant leaders, not just serve needs?
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Sound Booth / Tech Team • Maintenance: How do I make sure the sound and slides run smoothly this Sunday? • Multiplication: Who can I train so they can run sound in the future? • Multiplication: How do we multiply tech leaders so new services, campuses, or ministries can launch equipped?
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Worship Leaders • Maintenance: How do we sound better this Sunday? • Multiplication: Who in the band or congregation can I mentor to lead worship in the future? • Multiplication: How do we multiply worship leaders so that every group, gathering, or church plant has someone to lead?
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Pastors • Maintenance: How do we grow this church bigger? • Multiplication: How do we raise up pastors and church planters from within? • Multiplication: Who are my “Timothys” that I’m intentionally training to multiply leaders?
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Church Planters • Maintenance: How do I make this church strong and healthy? • Multiplication: How do I plant in such a way that this church will plant another church within 3 years? • Multiplication: How do I build a culture of sending from the very beginning?
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General “Every Leader” Questions • Maintenance: How do I succeed in my role? • Multiplication: Who am I apprenticing to take my place? • Multiplication: Who are my spiritual grandchildren — the people being discipled by those I discipled?
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***  7. Progression of Questions: From Addition to Multiplication***
Level 1: I Count (self-focused) • How am I doing? • Did I do a good job teaching / leading / serving? • Did people like what I did today?
(Example: A sound booth worker asks, “Did I get the slides right?”)
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Level 2: I Count What I Do (program-focused) • How many people showed up to my class, service, or ministry? • How can I make this better for those who attend? • Did the event/service/program run smoothly?
(Example: A Sunday school teacher asks, “How many kids are in my class this week?”)
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Level 3: I Count What We Do Together (team-focused) • How is our team doing? • How can we grow this ministry bigger or better together? • How can we serve more people as a team?
(Example: A deacon asks, “How can our deacon team meet more needs this year?”)
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Level 4: I Count Leaders I Raise Up (reproduction-focused) • Who am I apprenticing right now? • Who could I trust to lead if I wasn’t here? • How can I release more people into ministry and leadership?
(Example: A worship leader asks, “Who in the band can I mentor to lead a worship set?”)
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Level 5: I Count Leaders Who Multiply Leaders (movement-focused) • Who are my spiritual grandchildren — the leaders raised up by the leaders I’ve discipled? • How do we create a culture where leaders naturally multiply leaders? • How can we measure success by kingdom expansion, not just local growth?
(Example: A pastor asks, “Who are the church planters being trained by the leaders I’ve already raised up?”)
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✅ Progression Summary (for a slide or handout): • Level 1–2 questions: focus on me and my ministry. • Level 3 questions: focus on our ministry team. • Level 4 questions: focus on leaders I raise. • Level 5 questions: focus on leaders who raise leaders.
 
**(1:00)** What kinds of questions are you asking? Do your answers move you toward reproduction and multiplication or do they keep you stuck in the status quo? I know what kind of questions I want to be asking!
– “Thank you for listening today! -If you enjoyed the show you can listen to all the past shows wherever you listen to podcasts. A good place to start is at runwithhorses.net. You can also write me at norman@runwithhorses.net or leave a comment on the Run With Horses Podcast facebook page.Don’t be discouraged by the challenges you face. Keep your eyes on Jesus and embrace the opportunity to grow through the trial. Until next time, keep your eyes on Jesus and never stop running."**(00:00)**

Barriers for a Disciple Maker

Rwh13sep Ep.381 – Run With Horses Podcast –  3 Barriers Disciple Makers FacePodcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube:  https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook:  https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter:  https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
Barriers to Disciple-Making
Part 1: Why These Things Are a Problem
1. Busyness ( • Define it: Activity without intentionality. • Luke 10:41–42:2. Apathy • A lack of concern for spiritual needs. • Revelation 3:15–16:
3. Lack of Discipline • Inconsistent rhythms of prayer, Word, and mission. • 1 Corinthians 9:27 (: Part 2: What We Can Do About It
1. Countering Busyness with Margin • Ephesians 5:15–16:
2. Countering Apathy with Love and Prayer • Matthew 9:37–38: 3. Countering Lack of Discipline with Spiritual Good Habits • Luke 9:23 : 

5 Traits of a Disciple Maker

Rwh06sep Ep.380 – Run With Horses Podcast –  5 Traits of Disciple Makers
Podcast: rwh.podbean.com
Website: www.runwithhorses.net
Youtube:  https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcast
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcast
Twitter:  https://twitter.com/RWH_podcast
Author pages with links to all books on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smith
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith
 
1.. The Call to Discipleship
•Jesus’ Invitation
•Mark 1:17
•Goal of Discipleship
•Romans 8:29
 
2.. Theological Foundation of Spiritual Growth
•The Seed Growing
•Matthew 13:31–32
•Athletes Training
•1 Corinthians 9:24–27
•Endurance in the Race
•Hebrews 12:1–2
 
3.. Core Virtues in the Journey
 
1. Discipline
•1 Timothy 4:7–8
2. Perseverance
•James 1:2–4
 
3. Risk-Taking (Faith in Action)
•Jonathan and His Armor-Bearer (1 Samuel 14:6–7)
•Risk: Attacking a Philistine garrison with just two men.
•Faith: Jonathan trusted that God was not limited by numbers or strength.
•Outcome: God gave them victory, sparking courage in Israel.
 
 
4. Curiosity (A Holy Hunger)
•Acts 17:11
 
Zacchaeus Seeking Jesus
•Luke 19:3–4
•Curiosity: Zacchaeus was determined to see Jesus.
•Outcome: His seeking led to salvation coming to his house.
 
Godly curiosity:
•Is fueled by humility (acknowledging we don’t know everything).
•Leads to greater revelation (God meets seekers with truth).
•Results in deeper faith and obedience, not mere intellectual satisfaction.
 
5. Integrity (Wholeness and Consistency)
•Matthew 5:37
 
6.. Conclusion
•Philippians 1:6
•Return to Jesus’ words: “Follow Me, Fish for men.”
 
– “Thank you for listening today! 
-If you enjoyed the show you can listen to all the past shows wherever you listen to podcasts. A good place to start is at runwithhorses.net. You can also write me at norman@runwithhorses.net or leave a comment on the Run With Horses Podcast facebook page.
Day by day, God is transforming us into the image of His Son. Be encouraged that He will complete His work! And Until next time, keep your eyes on Jesus and never stop running."

Supporting Your Pastor's Wife

Rwh30aug Ep.379 – Run With Horses Podcast –  Supporting Your Pastor’s WifePodcast: rwh.podbean.comWebsite: www.runwithhorses.netYoutube:  https://youtube.com/@rwhpodcastFacebook:  https://www.facebook.com/RWHpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/rwh_podcastTwitter:  https://twitter.com/RWH_podcastAuthor pages with links to all books on Amazon.https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BCSDDVLB – James Norman Smithhttps://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BMGW51FW – Susan Jane Smith